Fixed retainers only - no removable retainers

[Zach2k]

Hi,

I had invisalign for a while. My teeth werent that bad the main problem was a big gap between the front two teeth.

Anyway, my ortho corrected the gaps and we opted for the fixed retainers option. On the top row they are behind all the teeth upto but NOT including the canines. On the bottom row they are bonded to the canines too.

But should I have been given removable ones for the rest of my teeth too? My ortho mentioned how the canines are stronger and more resistant to moving and at the moment I've still got what people have been saying a 'perfect smile'.

But its only been 4 months since I'v had only fixed retainers. In the long term will my other teeth move? Was the approach of my ortho (quite an inexperienced one) of fixed retainers only a wise one?

thanks for any advice.

[Phantom Muse]

Zach,

I just got my bonded retainers this past week after almost five months of having only removable ones. In addition to the bonded retainers, my ortho trimmed my Vivera retainer to fit around them so that my back teeth can also be retained. We've gone ahead and ordered new Vivera retainers that will completely cover the bonded retainers and I'll use those when they arrive.

I finally went with bonded retainers because my teeth were not settling well with only removable, and the idea of wearing those most of the time for many more months at the least did not appeal to me. I did get used to the constant tightness in my front teeth when reinserting them after a few hours of leaving them out. It seemed as if the tightness was only with the front teeth; however, after getting the bonded retainers, I realize that there is a tiny bit of tightness in the back teeth when I put the removable ones in (I only wear them at night). Soooo... it seems to be that although there is no visible change in the back teeth during the day, they are clearly shifting around a bit. As a result, I am convinced that it is important to retain the back teeth as well. It looks as if night time wear will work for me (and I may eventually be able to lessen that wear to only a few nights weekly) so I suspect that may be the case with everyone.

I had very little movement in my back teeth during treatment, and my bite was fine before getting Invisalign, so I wonder if people who have had even greater movement during treatment are even more susceptible to relapse.

Hope this makes sense (and helps!)

[Brace Face]

I agree with Phantom, I have bonded retainers both top and bottom but also have Essix retainers for nights to keep my molars in place. Talk to your ortho and ask why you don't have anything for your back teeth, there may be a perfectly good reason why. Good luck.

[Zach2k]

Thanks for the replies. I'll ask at the next appointment. I'm not 100% sure but I dont think the teeth behind my canines moved much or at all during treatment.

To be honest would be a bit of a downer if I did have to wear removable retainers even if for a couple of nights. THE biggest happiness I've found with fixed retainers (after the first week when it felt like I had a booby trap in my mouth!) is that I could almost 'forget' about taking things in and out my mouth.

[Phantom Muse]

I, too, LOVE finally not having to think too much about my teeth all day long! However, the removable retainers are not a hassle at night. I put them in only when I have crawled into bed and am ready to fall asleep, so I really don't notice them much. I take them out as soon as I get out of bed. If you do decide to get the removable ones, I bet you'll adjust in no time.

It took me just a few days to get used to the bonded retainers; I was afraid I would really dislike them. I am only a week into them, and I've got the flossing thing down and I hardly think about them. In fact, I do sometimes have to remind myself that I can eat without any production! That's my biggest happiness!

[Sunny]

Zach it's great that you have bonded retainers and they sound like they are holding the teeth that are most at risk of moving. But ... bonded retainers can easily come loose and/or be knocked off and then those teeth are at risk of moving. Also all our teeth are at risk of moving for as long as we're alive ... and this is the main reason that retainers at night for life, are the only way our teeth can stay where they are.

Talk to your ortho about what happens if your bonded retainer comes off one or more teeth? Plus what happens to the teeth behind your lateral incisors on your top and canines on your lowers.

Good luck!

[Zach2k]

Hmm interesting, my ortho said I'd have to give up flossing after having having the retainers fitted (not that I ever flossed before ) although my gums do bleed a little when brushing since having retainers fitted

Phantom - trust me in one months time you'll hardly noticed they are there. In my first week of having fixed retainers I thought, 'WHAT THE HELL?!' felt like I had a mouthful and seemed to defeat the purpose of having 18 months of discrete invisaligns to then be fitted with permanent appliances that felt as if borrowed from one of the Saw films!

But you do get used to em. My philosophy was I'll give it 6 months - if after 6 months I still hate them I'll get removable ones and by that time I'd have had 6 months of 24/7 retention. But I love em now and love the 'feeling' that theres always something there fighting to keep my teeth in place, as strange as that might sound. With my invisaligns my relapse was very quick, after even a couple of hours of them being out, it'd feel tight putting them back in, and I hated that feeling.

Guys - how far do your retainers go/attached to? On my uppers they go upto but NOT including the canines. Just wondering over time (although after 4 months hasnt happened yet) if the canines will move. Last thing I want is a fang like look.

[Zach2k]

Zach it's great that you have bonded retainers and they sound like they are holding the teeth that are most at risk of moving. But ... bonded retainers can easily come loose and/or be knocked off and then those teeth are at risk of moving. Also all our teeth are at risk of moving for as long as we're alive ... and this is the main reason that retainers at night for life, are the only way our teeth can stay where they are.

Talk to your ortho about what happens if your bonded retainer comes off one or more teeth? Plus what happens to the teeth behind your lateral incisors on your top and canines on your lowers.

Good luck!

Hey Sunny. Firstly thanks for your 'push' towards fixed retainers in earlier discussions. As mentioned I love them now. On my bottom row I have actually had a couple of breakages and my ortho cemented them back on a couple of days later. My bottom row were never really the problem however, the gaps and issues I had was the top row and I hope they never break. She did say she'd cement them back on if they did or if gaps reappeared, have the retainers removed, put the invisaligns back in and then retainers fitted back on. Is that normal practice?

Yeah as mentioned I'm going to enquire with her about my canines/lateral incisors. They havent moved in 4 months and I've had repeated complements about my teeth but bit concerned about morphing into a vampire in the long term.

[Sunny]

Hmm interesting, my ortho said I'd have to give up flossing after having having the retainers fitted (not that I ever flossed before ) although my gums do bleed a little when brushing since having retainers fitted

Please talk to your dentist about this. Flossing needs to be done regularly and done properly. If your gums aren't looked after, you risk gum disease and loosing your teeth permanently.

I've had gum disease as a result of not flossing. It's painful to fix and expensive. I have permanent bone loss and gum recession.

Flossing with fixed retainers is easy! It may take a few more seconds, but for a great smile for a liftetime ... why would you risk it?

Guys - how far do your retainers go/attached to? On my uppers they go upto but NOT including the canines. Just wondering over time (although after 4 months hasnt happened yet) if the canines will move. Last thing I want is a fang like look.

I don't have my retainers yet ... another delay ... but oh well, after all this time I'm not too concerned. When I get my fixed retainers, the top will be bonded to six teeth and the lower to eight. This is due to those areas being where the main gaps where. My top right canine is still impacted and my teeth behind it have been brought forward to close that gap. My removable retainers will wrap round all teeth to keep my molars closed.

[Zach2k]

Ouch, sorry to hear that Sunny, hope you're better now. My ortho is also my dentist and her line was 'you cant floss anymore now that you've got fixed retainers!' so talking to her wont be much use.

Any pointers to any good/reliable websites/videos that show how to floss with fixed retainers anyone?

Also does flossing encourage gaps to re-emerge? That was my other slight concern.

[Sunny]

Flossing with retainers is the same as flossing with braces ... except easier, as the wire is only behind a few teeth. You need to buy oral b superfloss, or get a floss threader. I use oral b superfloss, which has one 'hard' end. It's tiny and can be threaded between your teeth at the gum line and under the bonded retainer. Floss the gums and then remove it ... and so on. You don't have many teeth attached to your bonded retainer, so it should be very easy. Remember that flossing keeps your gums in good condition ... and I'm shocked that your dentist does not care about your gums.

Flossing works on the gums, and it keeps the teeth roots strong, and therefore it keeps the gaps from appearing. Gaps can appear as a result of gum disease causing bone loss. While your gums are healthy this won't happen!

[Zach2k]

Cool, thanks Sunny. Will buy some of that Oral B Superfloss. Thanks for your helpful replies on the other threads too this morning

[coconut]

I have bonded retainers, canine to canine, on both arches.

An alternative to using superfloss along the gum margin/below the wire is to use proxy brushes (they are bristly things, like miniature pipecleaners - ask your dentist). Above the wire, I use regular floss.

[Sunny]

Coconut proxy brushes are great for cleaning the gaps at the gum line, but they can't floss the most important area, the area just below the gum. This area requires a careful up and down movement of a fine thread to remove the plaque. Anything too big or moving around, risks causing gum recession, and not cleaning properly, which can results in gum disease.

[coconut]

Sunny, that may well be your personal view, but my dentist recommended this technique to me and as the brush I use is small enough to go places that floss would reach, I don't see why I should be at a heightened risk of gum disease.

[IHIC]

My local store is limited with proxy brush sizes, I can't find any small enough. Especially not small enough to go up under the gum line like in this picture:



What sizes are people using? The smallest in my local store is 0.45mm

[Phantom Muse]

My two cents... when I got my bonded retainers last week, I could NOT fit any sort of floss - Glide single floss with the hard end, regular floss, a floss threader, etc. - between my two front teeth. I had a total freak, but again my daughter saved me and reminded me that she had used the Oral B Superfloss when she had braces. I ran to get some, and it works for me! The moral of the story: keep trying until you find what works. Because I have tight teeth (small mouth, big teeth), I have two different floss types I have to use -- neither being the regular, old-fashioned inexpensive kind.

[coconut]

I use the Pikster brand, number 2 size (almost the smallest).

[Sunny]

Coconut it's not my personal opinion ... it's medically proven.

I guess one of the easy things for most people to do, is compare the shape, size and feel of a piece of floss ... and compare the size, shape and feel of the tiniest proxy brush ... luckily it doesn't take much to work it out.

Phantom ... I'm hoping to be able to mix it up with oral b superfloss and my usual brand of floss ... but not sure if that will work or not. But ... if I can't, I'd rather pay a little more for the oral b superfloss and know my teeth will be kept safe in my gums than risk gum disease again. After one round of bone loss ... I'm never going to risk that happening again!

[Phantom Muse]

After a week plus a day, I do really like my bonded retainers, and the adjusted flossing (I floss twice daily at least) takes maybe a total of 5 minutes a day. After having Invisalign, that's extra time, but I bet for those who have had regular braces, that will be less time spent flossing than usual!

I am not sure why the Superfloss works and the others don't - well, regular floss has always shredded between my teeth - so I can cut corners a bit elsewhere to save a few pennies if needed. However, the Superfloss doesn't fit between two of my back molars, so there I have to use a "bullet-proof vest strength" plastic flossing-thingy. It's all fine, though; it's a small price to pay!

Sunny - you must be getting very close to a debanding date, yes?!?!?!?!

Blessed holidays to all...

[coconut]

Coconut it's not my personal opinion ... it's medically proven.

Do you have a source?

I guess one of the easy things for most people to do, is compare the shape, size and feel of a piece of floss ... and compare the size, shape and feel of the tiniest proxy brush ... luckily it doesn't take much to work it out.

Actually, no, that is not enough to validate a point. Practical application is the test - see my post above.

[Sunny]

Sunny - you must be getting very close to a debanding date, yes?!?!?!?!

Very close ... about two months to go I think ... and I am so excited. I can't wait to have those gold wires bonded behing my teeth ... it will be so exciting! I can't wait to feel how big and slippery my teeth will feel ... I just can't wait!

[ports]

So my ortho said that he'd do a bonder retainer when my Damon treatment was done. I've seen a few different pictures for the bonded retainer, from a wire thats behind the teeth, or like 2 cups that are on the canines with a wire running between them.

bonded retainers - Google Search

What about just getting some invisalign trays after my metal braces come out and wearing those 24/7?

[Sunny]

Ports there are different types of bonded retainers and they're very easy to adjust to, as they're made from a tiny wire that may be bonded to each tooth, or to the teeth at each end.

You can't wear aligners 24 hours a day, as you can't eat or drink anything other than water when you have them in. Also there'd be problems with smell and discolouration if you wore them for too long. Aligners are great as removable retainers that need to be worn at night only when you have bonded aligners.

[Ariel]

You guys have some great discussion going on about bonded retainers so I had to join and ask a question! I just finished Invisalign for 6 months of treatment. I just had to have my front two upper teeth straightened and my front bottom teeth (probably four) were out of alignment pretty bad. So I didn't have to do Invisalign for very long. I had braces when I was young and had a bottom bonded retainer that busted when I was in college and never had it fixed. Top was a removable retainer that I stopped wearing so the front two teeth moved.

ANYWAY - I have had the bonded retainers on top and bottom for only 2 days now but I have a lisp and it is driving me crazy! I have always been able to pronounce words abnormally well and was a speech major and do some acting so to have this lisp is NOT GOOD! HELP - will it go away or will I always have it with the bonded top retainer?

[Sunny]

Hi Ariel and welcome to this forum.

Sorry you're having this problem. About three quarters of our patients are now getting upper and lower bonded retainers and so far not one has mentioned thinking they've got a lisp, so I'm guessing it's rare and hopefully something you'll adjust to quickly. If by chance it lasts more than a few days, give your ortho a call and ask about it.

Good luck!