Sapphire braces vs. Damon system braces

[kris]

I am 36 years old and am finally going to get braces. I wanted Invisalign due to the fact that I have found myself single again and want them to be less obvious however I am not a candidate. I was going to get sapphire clear braces but came across the Damon System online and am curious about it so I am going to make an appt. to check those out. Does anybody know if the Damon braces are clear or not? They don't show pics on the website. Less force seems like a good choice but I don't want metal braces. Any advice would be appreciated!

[Sunny]

Hi Kris

Please choose an orthodontist for his skill and ability to communicate well with you, not for the advertising surrounding a type of bracket. A good orthodontist will be able to move your teeth no matter what is attached to the front of them, as brackets don't move teeth ... skill and archwires do that. Remember brackets don't apply any force to your teeth ... and your teeth will go nowhere with them.

Self ligating brackets (of which damon is a brand) do not have a totally clear bracket. There are two other brands that do have a nearly clear bracket, with a metal clip, but they are still much more obvious than ceramic brackets.

My ortho doesn't use sapphire brackets, but I've seen them, and they look gorgous ... like tiny pieces of ice attached to your teeth.

Good luck finding a great orthodontist.

[mariahfromchicago]

No, Damons are not clear. There is one version of it that is 1/2 clear

[18daystobrace]

I am single and have metal braces. I am glad I choose metal braces, save myself $350. I was going for ceramic braces, but then after some deep thinking and research, decided to go with metal.

Personally I feel 99% ceramic clear and metal types makes no difference because you can still see them if the person is not a stranger and you have a lot of interaction with the person. You can hide from strangers but not people who are close to you.

I get my lower metal on this week.

[Sunny]

Great you're happy with the type of brackets you chose 18.

The orthodontist's I work for, do not charge extra for metal/ceramic/gold/ibraces. This is due to them working the same and it being about personal choice. Most of our patients choose ceramic, and depending on their bite, the lowers may be metal or gold.

I've been trialing two different brands of ceramic brackets, with mostly metal brackets. The ceramic brackets are smoother, easier to clean and also the colour ligatures look awesome with them, when compared to the metal ones. I'm not planning to get my ortho to change my metal brackets to ceramic ones, but if I was to do this again ... and I hope I never have to ... then I'd definitely choose all ceramic. They're so comfy ... and it's a great reminder of how great the modern brackets are.

Originally Posted by 18daystobrace

Personally I feel 99% ceramic clear and metal types makes no difference because you can still see them if the person is not a stranger and you have a lot of interaction with the person. You can hide from strangers but not people who are close to you.

Except when a person is close to you and looking directly at your mouth, most brackets are not noticable, and ceramic brackets are even less noticable. I think for most people, it's more about how they feel they look, especially people who work in a professional environment. I'm thrilled that the people designing brackets have considered how people who are professional feel about having braces, and have responded in such a positive way. Invisalign is amazing, but only suits a small number of people, due to the limits of it's treatment. Lingual brackets are great, but many people (myself included) are not prepared to put in the extra work required for comfort, when brackets on the labial side of our teeth are so easy to wear.

Here's to all our experiences being great and our progress being amazing!

[HeadJam]

I run my own business in the computer field and my face is the face of sales. I personally don't give a crap what potential clients think of my smile. If it ends up being a conversation, then they realize that I give a crap about my teeth and it helps me make a sale since it shows I care about details. Being a web designer is all about details, after all.

Cheers,
HeadJam

[Zoso]

Sounds like a pretty healthy attitude towards the situation to me. If your potential customers are using their brains, they will realise that it is your skills and abilities to manage the job at hand that matters, and not whether or not you're choosing to fix your teeth.

[Sunny]

I totally agree with you Headjam and that's why I've got mostly metal, as this is about me and not about the people I work with.

When I started my treatment I was working as a counsellor and very few people commented on my having braces. Now I'm working for three orthodontists' and a colleague has all ceramic. We compare notes, which our bosses find interesting.

About 75% of our patients choose ceramic brackets, especially the younger patients, and they look great and the brand we provide is easier to keep clean when compared to the metal ones, which is an advantage with our many teenage clients. We don't charge extra for the type of brackets used, as my bosses know this is about their skill, the archwires and patient compliance.

[Zoso]

That's odd. I seem to recall reading somewhere that Con offers the social six in ceramics free only to adult patients, deeming the extra discretion so afforded as being unnecessary to under-18s.

But that notwithstanding, I am not convinced by your assertion that ceramics are easier to clean than metal. Even if you neglect the fact that ceramics often have the larger footprint (making them tougher to clean around than smaller, metal brackets) there is also the contention that ligature ties can actually harbour more plaque bacteria than self-ligating brackets. Now, I know that not all ceramics use traditional ties, and not all metal brackets are self-ligating, and I'd also add that some of the research in this area is contradictory, but it is still something worth giving at least a moment's consideration. But, beyond that argument, and assuming similar-sized brackets in both metal and ceramic, both of which use a comparible tie mechanism, why would the ceramics be any easier to clean?

[Sunny]

Originally Posted by Zoso

That's odd. I seem to recall reading somewhere that Con offers the social six in ceramics free only to adult patients, deeming the extra discretion so afforded as being unnecessary to under-18s.

You have an interesting memory Zoso. One of my bosses did once feel that ceramic brackets were for adults, but that was a long time ago and now he uses ceramic brackets on the uppers for all his patients, unless asked to do otherwise.

The type of ceramic bracket we offer ... and it's similar to most, doesn't have the groves on the bracket, like the metal ones do, so food cannot attach itself there.

I was a participant in a research project carried out by three countries, that found that self ligating brackets that use doors, harbour more bacteria than any other type of brackets. This research also found that the ligaturers used by well known brands of manufacturers, does not allow plaque to attach to them. This apparently was another one of the many advertising lies used by the marketing people attached to self ligating brackets.

But, beyond that argument, and assuming similar-sized brackets in both metal and ceramic, both of which use a comparible tie mechanism, why would the ceramics be any easier to clean?

Design of the bracket. The ceramic bracket we use, has a slot for the archwire, then the wings take up most of the space, which has been designed for comfort as well as to give less area for food to attach to. The stainless bracket, has a slot for the archwire, and through the vertical of the bracket is an even wider slot. The main design difference is, that the wings of the stainless bracket are small and therefore there are gaps between them, which don't exist for with the ceramic bracket!

[Zoso]

It would seem then that your argument is peculiar to the particular combination of bracket brands you say your office favours (what brands are they, as a matter of interest?) It is fallacy to extend an argument like this to the most general case of all metal brackets vs. all ceramic brackets, since designs are so massively varied, and both SL and traditionally tied systems are seen in both.

And yes, I do have a long memory.

[Sunny]

I am referring to the brands we use, although the ceramic brand was changed between my starting treatment and working here, so I'm aware of how they compare. Also as part of my training, I attend trade meetings, where marketers put forward reasons why the Practice I work for should use their brackets. This has given me the opportunity to see most of the lastest brackets being marketed.

We buy the majority of our orthodontic products from TP Orthodontics, Inc. The main ceramic bracket we use is called InVu and the main stainless bracket we used is called Nu-Edge.

[Zoso]

It's all very interesting, Sunny. A few points:

I sincerely doubt that the study in which you participated was of such a scope as to study all brands of self-ligating brackets, and all brands of traditionally tied brackets. As such, it is just one study with its own, limited data set. And, as I mentioned above, there are equally carefully conducted scientific studies that have drawn the opposite conclusion. In my scientific opinion, the jury's still out on this issue.

I'm not sure what "groves" are? A typo or spelling mistake, I assume? And it appears from images on TPOrtho's web site (see InVu-Ortho.com and Nu-Edge Brackets**•**the bracket that sets the standard for low friction) that in broad terms the In-Vu and the Nu-Edge are quite similar in design, with both having a slot for the archwire (obviously a given) and also what amounts to a vertical slot, by virtue of the wing shape that each has. It's not clear to me why either better facilitate good oral hygiene than the other - I certainly see space more than large enough to harbour food on the In-Vu. But then, I don't pretend to be an orthodontic assistant.

By the way, you are also making a misleading statement in your ealier posting above:

Originally Posted by Sunny

Self ligating brackets (of which damon is a brand) do not have a totally clear bracket. There are two other brands that do have a nearly clear bracket, with a metal clip, but they are still much more obvious than ceramic brackets.

I've seen In-Ovation C and whilst it is true they have a metal clip, this is white, and in the mouth this bracket is no more obvious than any of the ceramic brackets I have seen. I've not seen Clarity SL, but given their design (they are basically the completely clear Clarity bracket, with small clips to either side, the same as is employed on 3M's SmartClips system) I cannot imagine them being any more obvious than ceramics, since the metal clips on this brand are going to be less obvious even than ligs. As to the Oyster (from Gestenco International AB) and the more common Opal - these are completely clear.

[HeadJam]

Seems like quite the pseudo flame-war going on here. I'd almost suspect you two from being from rival ortho companies if I had to guess. I guess each ortho has their preference. All that can be done is try to inform the patient as best you can and let them pick and choose. After all, isn't it the archwire that does the work anyways?

Cheers and happy arguing,
HeadJam

[Zoso]

The archwire is indeed what affects the movement, though it must do so by transferring forces through the brackets. As I've mentioned elsewhere on these forums, this is why the very smallest of brackets can sometimes present problems.

I certainly don't have any particular axe to grind, and certainly I am not an advocate of one general bracket type over another (SL vs. traditionally tied, or metal vs. ceramic) much less of one brand over another (and I know that Sunny would also tell anyone that the bracket brand is not really important). But I do find myself concerned when someone who is presenting themselves as a dental professional puts forth information that is at best limited in its scope, and at worst is inaccurate.

[eatyourpeas]

I have a younger child who is still in need of braces and this whole "cleaner" thing is intreaguing. What brand are those Sunny!!??

Could you PLEASE let us know so we can make a better decision?

Thanks