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Thread: Cone Beam CT study refutes claims by Damon

  1. #1
    MCOMarkhamOrthodontist's Avatar
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    Cone Beam CT study refutes claims by Damon

    I haven't posted at all in the Damon forum and do not use the Damon system. Having been trained to critically evaluate anything we use for our patients, the hype and rhetoric about Damon has not swayed this at all. What sounds too good to be true usually is. Read more here:

    http://markhamortho.blogspot.com/200...t-markham.html
    Last edited by MCOMarkhamOrthodontist; 06-04-2009 at 09:58 AM. Reason: wrong URL
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    anijh is offline Member
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    Interesting study. Thanks for posting this to your blog. Is there a similar study out there that does the same for other types of braces? It would be neat to see a direct one-on-one comparison.

    *** I'm not interested in damon braces. Just curious about the study and its results.
    Last edited by anijh; 06-04-2009 at 11:14 AM.

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    Anijh this is comparing the two main types of bracket braces. Although they've used only one brand of self ligating, this can be considered to apply to all brackets that are self ligating.

    One of my employers has additional training in the use of a particular brand of self ligating and did use them for a period of time. He stopped when he realised they did not deliver on the many promises they make to the professional and the client.

    I have shown him this report this morning and he is hoping that there is money put behind a report like this, to help clients realise that the much of the marketing by some self ligating brackets, is about selling, not factual. He has found that he can achieve better and more stable results with brackets that require ligs and he has less issues with regard to ligs vs doors and clips. His opinions are exactly that ... his opinions, but we know they're shared with many orthodontists, including some who've introduced self ligating due to client pressure, but are now removing them from their practices.
    After 5 years, 11 months and two days of stainless steel brackets ... my teeth now have upper and lower bonded, gold wire, retainers and removable clear retainers!

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    MCOMarkhamOrthodontist's Avatar
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    I will present some more evidence regarding SL brackets shortly. The Damon System has promised more than other SL brackets, in that extractions are rarely necessary because they are able to grow bone and expand arches that were previously thought impossible.

    Unfortunately, the marketing is done by large, wealthy orthodontic supply companies. The orthodontists are also at fault for not critically evaluating the products they use. One of the best ways to spread the word is through forums such as this one. The goal of my original post was to raise awareness about the inaccurate claims made by Damon's parent company, Ormco, and help create a more informed consumer.
    Dr. Jason K Tam
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    For the best Toronto Invisalign results, check out Invisalign Before and After, how to choose an Invisalign doctor, and Invisalign vs Braces
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    anijh is offline Member
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    Thanks Sunny and Dr. Tam for the explanations. As I said before in my forum introduction, it's been over a decade since I last wore braces so this is all new to me. I don't even know where to begin when comparing all the different braces out there now and truth be told I'd never even heard of damon braces (or self-ligating) until I came to this forum. It's all so interesting to see how far braces have come along. Too bad the damon system is being proven not worthy of the hype.

    I'm going to visit the campus library on Monday to see if I can view a little more of this study.
    Last edited by anijh; 06-05-2009 at 06:40 AM.

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    Sunny's Avatar
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    Anijh when searching for ortho treatment, the best focus is to find an ortho you communicate well with. This person will use the equipment that's best for you and you know you can ask heaps about what's happening with your treatment. The treatment plan should also be a focus, but most important is finding an ortho you feel comfortable with ... no matter what bracket brands they use.

    Good luck!
    After 5 years, 11 months and two days of stainless steel brackets ... my teeth now have upper and lower bonded, gold wire, retainers and removable clear retainers!

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    wow... Is the Damon System gaining popularity now because of the initial hype.. not sure I have seen orthos around here offering it.
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    anijh is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunny View Post
    Anijh when searching for ortho treatment, the best focus is to find an ortho you communicate well with. This person will use the equipment that's best for you and you know you can ask heaps about what's happening with your treatment. The treatment plan should also be a focus, but most important is finding an ortho you feel comfortable with ... no matter what bracket brands they use.

    Good luck!
    Great advice as always Sunny.

    I'm not interested in having metal braces but will do so if I'm not a good candidate for Invisalign. I'm not sure if the orthodontist I'm seeing next week do damon braces (or any other type of SL braces) but even if he did, given the results of this study I would ask for the old-fashioned kind I wore as a kid with the elastic bands. I guess I became more interested in the report when I googled for images of damon braces for a better view of what was being discussed. They look similar to traditional braces to me!

    I've explored a little more on self-ligating braces including the damon system and see that they're not quite the same as traditional braces and that they work a bit differently. All in all, I'm glad this forum exists and that doctors such as Dr. Tam and ortho staff members like yourself visit to help board members make a more informed decision even if members may later choose to go against the advice given here.
    Last edited by anijh; 06-05-2009 at 03:46 PM.

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    Zoso is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkhamCentreOrthodontics View Post
    Unfortunately, the marketing is done by large, wealthy orthodontic supply companies. The orthodontists are also at fault for not critically evaluating the products they use.
    I hate to say it, but I'd go further than that. Some providers are, I believe, actively and cynically harnessing the hype created by the Ormco marketing, as a means of making their practice appear to prospective patients to be better than the next man's.
    I am not a dental professional.

    As it says on the main Bracesreview.com page, always consult a qualified orthodontist, dentist, or medical professional with questions you may have.

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    I agree Zoso, and then some regret their decision, due to the outcomes not matching the promises.

    My employers know of a couple of businesses in our city, who are removing self ligating from their business, but are finding client 'mis directed loyalty' mostly caused by their business, is making this hard to do.

    Another concern has been the use of ligs. Many adults beginning treatment don't want the staining issues that revolve around ligs, and therefore are easily converted to the idea of self ligating. We use teflon coated wire ties to make this a non issue, but it does take some work to explain to clients why ligs are fine. I enjoy it when the client comes in and asks for bright coloured ligs. I'm guessing 90% of our adults try colour before long with their ceramic brackets and love it. Often this is as a result of seeing the younger patients with ceramic and coloured ligs. Last year we added some additional 'teeth models' to our display, that show the coloured ligs on the ceramic and metal brackets we offer. This also seems to have helped.
    After 5 years, 11 months and two days of stainless steel brackets ... my teeth now have upper and lower bonded, gold wire, retainers and removable clear retainers!

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    smilez4me is offline Member
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    I had NEVER heard of the damon systom before my inlawas toldme about it. That being said... I find it difficult to believe that the advertising is so feirce. Now.. Invisalign, that i see everyday all day and plastered al over billboards. Again... didnt get my braces because of hype and the ortho didnt sell them on me... my family members who are in the business themselves went over everything with me and my options and then I brought them to my ortho.

    All that being said.... it is amazing how Invisalign escapes the marketing backlash when they are indeed now marketing to teenagers. That to me is just shows no morals. So call it like it is.. i say nobody is perfect.

    Also... its the ortho not the bracket that gives you good results correct. I have no blasted idea why it is now not the case here. If the bracket doesnt work its not the ortho its the bracket. Whatever. I do believe a good ortho can use just about any bracket with their knowledge.

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    MCOMarkhamOrthodontist's Avatar
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    While they do have some national campaigns, much of the Invisalign advertising that you see is not from Align itself. They are independent providers who do this. As for Invisalign Teen, there are many merits to this system for teenagers. It is not suitable for every child, but it is actually the treatment of choice in some cases. I have not personally seen any false claims made by Invisalign in their advertising.

    Damon is the first bracket that has been direct marketed to the public.

    Proper diagnosis and treatment planning can never be replaced by any bracket system, whether it is Damon or not. The Damon System makes claims that extractions are not required even in severely crowded situations, since their extremely light forces allow bone to regenerate around the tooth, no matter how much expansion is required. Yes, this system has shown to align teeth and expand arches. It has not demonstrated that there is still good bony support around the roots as they say.

    Certainly, there is no problem in using Damon brackets when severe expansion is not required and traditional treatment planning is employed. However, at that point, there is no advantage to their use, since self-ligating literature has shown unequivocally that there is no difference in treatment time. Detailing and finishing is also more difficult.

    The problem is that Damon users, with some exceptions, have "bought" into the idea that they can forget about traditional biology because of this brace.
    Last edited by MCOMarkhamOrthodontist; 06-06-2009 at 06:34 PM.
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    So are you saying that the Damon system or those who use it dont take biology into consideration? If thats the case that is one of the main reasons I got these brackets. Yet if you didnt study that line of ortho then you would have no idea what I am talking about.

    Also... my teeth are tiny. There is no way the other brackets would have even fit on some of my teeth and not had be in terrible pain, so there really is a bracket for everyone. I find it entertaining that you as a profesional have the time to visit these boards. Also you ignore the fact that not all damon users are victoms of advertising as you all suggest.

    My Damon did NOT cost me anymore then the regular brackets would have. So my ortho is not making money on them. She never promised a quicker treatment either. There comes a point when an ortho should know what the history of the bracket is and what it can do for the patient.

    Invisilign .... what happens when that young kid comes into your office wanting those as thats what all the other kids have due to not wanting the look of braces and they cant have them as they dont fit the treatment for that child? Its border line on vanity and insecurity for teens. Its easy to market anything to children. Plain and simple.

    This is along the lines of the MAGO treatment. Yet another treatment I did that has done WONDERS for me. I have not had one bit of pain ever since. Yet you see so many people on here crying about TMJ pain but this treatment cant be discussed for whatever reason. It only makes sense to have your TMJ issues dealt with before braces but everyone makes their own decisions. I was in so much pain seriusly it would have me in tears. THANK GOD I did not read this board before doing mago or researching it on the net as once again only the negative is reported. Once again I went on the reccomendations of my family and I could not be happier. Then again there is an entire way of thinking and studies behind this kind of thing that you dont learn in regular dental or ortho schools. Just like moons ago people laughed and said vitamin c was a farse. Come on.. I need more then a few reports and peoples opinions to change my mind.

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    MCOMarkhamOrthodontist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smilez4me View Post
    So are you saying that the Damon system or those who use it dont take biology into consideration? If thats the case that is one of the main reasons I got these brackets. Yet if you didnt study that line of ortho then you would have no idea what I am talking about.

    Also... my teeth are tiny. There is no way the other brackets would have even fit on some of my teeth and not had be in terrible pain, so there really is a bracket for everyone. I find it entertaining that you as a profesional have the time to visit these boards. Also you ignore the fact that not all damon users are victoms of advertising as you all suggest.

    My Damon did NOT cost me anymore then the regular brackets would have. So my ortho is not making money on them. She never promised a quicker treatment either. There comes a point when an ortho should know what the history of the bracket is and what it can do for the patient.

    Invisilign .... what happens when that young kid comes into your office wanting those as thats what all the other kids have due to not wanting the look of braces and they cant have them as they dont fit the treatment for that child? Its border line on vanity and insecurity for teens. Its easy to market anything to children. Plain and simple.

    This is along the lines of the MAGO treatment. Yet another treatment I did that has done WONDERS for me. I have not had one bit of pain ever since. Yet you see so many people on here crying about TMJ pain but this treatment cant be discussed for whatever reason. It only makes sense to have your TMJ issues dealt with before braces but everyone makes their own decisions. I was in so much pain seriusly it would have me in tears. THANK GOD I did not read this board before doing mago or researching it on the net as once again only the negative is reported. Once again I went on the reccomendations of my family and I could not be happier. Then again there is an entire way of thinking and studies behind this kind of thing that you dont learn in regular dental or ortho schools. Just like moons ago people laughed and said vitamin c was a farse. Come on.. I need more then a few reports and peoples opinions to change my mind.
    The information is made available for readers of this forum. It is still the responsibility of the individual to determine what is appropriate for their particular situation, after obtaining all of the information available. While you are able to feel confident about your treatment without the need for scientific data, most people do not feel the same way and are interested in finding out more information. Best of luck with your treatment.
    Dr. Jason K Tam
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    smilez4me is offline Member
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    Again you assume I have no scientific data just because I dont agree or jump at the two reports out there. If people research they will also find other data as well. Its not all negative but if one chooses to believe everything they read so be it. Yet again anotehr example of how just because I dont agree because I have my own data backed up by VERY reliable sources and studies that I am ignorant. Again.. I would post them but everyone would be all over them and they would rather just take all negative instead of the entire picture. I can barely log in here due to my demanding life.. your practice must be thriving will all the free time on your hands.

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    Zoso is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by smilez4me View Post
    I had NEVER heard of the damon systom before my inlawas toldme about it. That being said... I find it difficult to believe that the advertising is so feirce. Now.. Invisalign, that i see everyday all day and plastered al over billboards. Again... didnt get my braces because of hype and the ortho didnt sell them on me... my family members who are in the business themselves went over everything with me and my options and then I brought them to my ortho.

    All that being said.... it is amazing how Invisalign escapes the marketing backlash when they are indeed now marketing to teenagers. That to me is just shows no morals. So call it like it is.. i say nobody is perfect.

    Also... its the ortho not the bracket that gives you good results correct. I have no blasted idea why it is now not the case here. If the bracket doesnt work its not the ortho its the bracket. Whatever. I do believe a good ortho can use just about any bracket with their knowledge.
    I too feel a level of discomfort in the level of marketing I see from Invisalign. (Every try going to their site, and doing the "quiz" to see if you are a candidate? Doesn't seem to matter how hard you try to stack the decks against it, it will still tell you it would be perfect for you!) And that is made worse by the fact that there are so many practitioners out there who lack the experience and expertise to know when a case is actually not suited. (I wonder often too whether Align ever rejects cases or if it is just down to the doc?) It is also exacerbated by the fact that people love to hear about all the "disadvantages" of fixed braces that the system overcomes, and do not pause for a moment to think about the difficulties Invisalign has for the patient.

    As to it being down to the ortho, not the bracket - I could not agree more, and have stated the same on many many occasions. But sadly, Orcmo's marketers would have us believe that Damons allow the doctor to achieve results that would not be possible with other brands - this is simply not true.
    I am not a dental professional.

    As it says on the main Bracesreview.com page, always consult a qualified orthodontist, dentist, or medical professional with questions you may have.

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    supo is offline Junior Member
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    Speaking of Invisalign - I took the Cliffords Dental Materials Immunology Test and I was found to have a negative immune response to Invisalign's plastics. Every person should have this done. We could debate whether it's a valid test or not, but, I won't. I trust it.

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    smilez4me is offline Member
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    You are correct Supo, anything could be a Debate here it seems. Its good you took that test and trust it. Its all about our OWN comfort level with a product and our ortho.

    People keep mentioning the marketing of the Damons as if every person who has them were all stary eyed and agreed to anything like they are fools. So all these studies have contradictions and I too could post about the latest report of the OP but you are right.. it doesnt matter its what we believe.

    I find it humurous as my teeth were simple and there were no need for extraction and I was not in a rush for treatment yet people will tell me thats what damon is all about. If someone is truely logical and cautious they investigate mor ethen what they read here. All too many times it seems like If a person posts about their damon brackets the phrase " the bracket doesnt matter" will be found in responses. If it doesnt matter what we wear then why have its own forum? Plus why arent other posts about other brackets followed with "it doesnt matter the bracket" ??? I mean it really doesnt matter the bracket but for people who wish to know what bracket you are using its good to state. Its not like "Oh look at me and how much better I am and my teeth will be because I have damons" its just this is the bracket I have period... done simple.

    Im just so tired of hearing people say the same things over and over and over and truth be told there are reports about ALL brackets if one wants to look hard enough. Ok sorry I got off topic a bit

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    Zoso is offline Senior Member
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    I know full well what brackets I had my dear. It's just that they are not marketed as aggressively as Damon. The trouble with Damon is that both the marketeers and the patients do indeed tout them as being able to do what other brands cannot, and that is rubbish, plain and simple. If anyone started to tout another brand on here as having special abilities, when that was false, I'd respond to their posts with the same language.

    It's reached a point here where I think you do protest too much. If you're secure in your choice, that's great. But I think that you need to stop defending what is not being attacked. We aren't attacking Damons, or people who happen to be using them - we are answering the false claims that are so repeatedly made in the name of this - and only this - brand.

    I can't respond as to why this site has a special sub-forum for Damons, as I did not make that choice. I suspect though that it is only in answer to the fact that it is generally only Damon wearers who do hold this (entirely mistaken) belief that their brackets are something special beyond all others, and it is overwhelmingly more common for patients (mainy only because they are sucked in by these false marketing claims) who are in Damons even to be aware what brand they have. Were it my choice, I'd not have the sub-forum, because I do think it might be viewed (incorrectly) as implying Damon are something special, but I am not the site Admin.
    I am not a dental professional.

    As it says on the main Bracesreview.com page, always consult a qualified orthodontist, dentist, or medical professional with questions you may have.

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    Smilez it's not the bracket ... and we all know that. As Zoso has written above, most of us don't have a problem with any type of bracket, but we have a huge problem with false advertising and the agressive manner in which some brackets are marketed. This agressive marketing can have the affect of making it sound like ortho's who don't use this brand are not up with modern practice, whereas the truth is that many of these ortho's use brands that have been more recently designed, but the brands don't find the need to use this type of marketing, as they know it's about the ortho and the archwires.

    We have small posters in each of our 'patient rooms' that show the brackets we use. These do include the name and maker of the brackets, but that's as far as it goes. We talk about the appearance of the bracket ... such as clear, gold and metal. We talk about where they're placed on the teeth ... ibraces and invisalign, but we don't talk brands, as our patients need to know their treatment is about working with the orthodontist for the best outcome.

    Your wrote about bracket size in a previous post and how this was important for you. I'm sure you did find that there are other brackets that are smaller in size than the ones you've chosen, which are also great brackets. Some of the smaller brackets don't offer the archwire as much opportunity for torque as the slightly wider brackets, but it's amazing what the archwires can do!

    It's great that you and your family have researched treatment types and you're happy with what you've chosen.
    After 5 years, 11 months and two days of stainless steel brackets ... my teeth now have upper and lower bonded, gold wire, retainers and removable clear retainers!

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    Zoso .. I never stated that you didnt know your brackets. I have stated many times that I agree its not that bracket that moves the teeth etc etc etc. my Dear. When have I EVER stated that they can do some miraculous thing that another bracket can not? I havent. I dont protest Darling, I do find it annoying that people have to keep telling the same people that the claims are false. I only protest when people try to assume I fell prey to marketing. PERIOD. It would be so much better without the sub forum as I think curious people come here and its not because they feel they have something superior on their teeth, rather its interesting to discuss with otehrs who have similar issues ets.

    I dont know why you get so defensive when all I say is "Not all of us damon users are victoms" I mean some of chose them for other reasons just like everyone chooses their brackets for their reasons. It really shouldnt be quite a big deal So when We say what kind we have why must it be followed by the repetive common knowledge? I mean if someone is asking about them and researching its one thing.. but when one has chosen the bracket... and they are on the teeth... let be. BECAUSE WE ALL KNOW ITS NOT THE BRACKET no matter which one we have. You totally mistook my post as I see no reason for your reply the way it was. Did I say my brackets are better? NO! Did I say I will have quicker treatment??? NO Gosh....

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    Zoso is offline Senior Member
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    I think you miss the point (and given you could not make a distinction between me talking about what Ormco/Damon say, what other users say, and what you say, this just underscores that your response is merely reactionary.)

    The point is that every time this board sees a new post, or a new thread touting the supposed special benefits of Damon, then there is the possibility (as Sunny stated) that some new member might run away with the idea that these claims are truth.

    As you said, you're happy with your choice - and no reason you should not be, since they are a serviceable enough bracket. But just quit leaping to the defence of what does not need defending since Damon's are not under attack, just the false marketing claims made by Ormco, and that often get repeated by some members here who do not yet know what you refer to in your post as the common knowledge.
    I am not a dental professional.

    As it says on the main Bracesreview.com page, always consult a qualified orthodontist, dentist, or medical professional with questions you may have.

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    smilez4me is offline Member
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    I was not leaping into the defense of anything nor do I feel like anything is being attacked. This is where I am confused. In my earlier post I was not referring to you at all but in general. While yes it is responsible to remind others of the claims it is also responsible to let others know of the success as well. Its simple there are two sides and people gather the information and make the decision best for them. I have never claimed to agree with anything the manf quotes rather I tell my experience. In doing so this does not make me defensive one bit. People deserve to hear the good with the bad and the indifferent etc. Thats what a discussion board is about. I didnt do or say anything in my post other then topics get heated and really one must go on what they believe. SO for you to come in and post what you replied with... well that I could take as one being defensive. Honestly though.... it doesnt matter. I dont leap to the judgement as everyone has their rights.

    This is a place about facts and experiences and we are all different and thats what makes it a community. We will not all agree nor should one try to convince people of one thing or another. Perhaps one could engage and ask the person why they believe what they believe or as if they are aware of xyz rather then go on assumption that they know nothing.

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    Zoso is offline Senior Member
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    I don't think anyone has ever said that Damon braces can not give good results. We've just stated the truth that they can only achieve what could be achieved with any other bracket brand.
    I am not a dental professional.

    As it says on the main Bracesreview.com page, always consult a qualified orthodontist, dentist, or medical professional with questions you may have.

  25. #25
    smilez4me is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoso View Post
    I don't think anyone has ever said that Damon braces can not give good results. We've just stated the truth that they can only achieve what could be achieved with any other bracket brand.

    Again.. where did I ever say that you or anyone else DID say that???? Yes we all agree about the brackets and they arent the key. Yes we know the gripes many have about the claims and such. having others state their positive experiences does not need to always be followed up with what is in every single post. I find it difficult to believe that a person looking into the Damons would read the sub board and NOT find it repeated over and over and over and over. You fail to see what I am saying... but thats quite all right. Again.. you started in on me after all I posted is its important to go with what YOU and as individual believe and feel comfortable with. PERIOD

    looking forward to seeing what you picked apart from this response. lol THEY ARE BRACKETS PEOPLE! Peices of metal on your teeth to hold a wire. Everyones negative retorts only gives them more time in the spotlight.

  26. #26
    Zoso is offline Senior Member
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    I give up. You're being deliberately obtuse. Not worth more effort. To be clear I shall not reply to you in this thread any further.

    For the record:

    Damon braces are nothing special (whether or not some chat forum chooses to give them their very own special subforum).

    The more times people reguritate Damon's/Ormco's false claims to the contrary, the more times we will need to refute those claims, lest someone who is not yet adequately informed fall into the trap of believing the splashy ads. Damons can not achieve results that are not possible with other brackets. Damons have not been demonstrated to be any faster than comparible competing brackets. And Damons cannot in any meaningful objective way be demonstrated to be more comfortable than any other brand or type of bracket. On the flip side, issues with binding doors (and reported issues of excessive amounts of debonding that were more common with older Damon models) notwithstanding, Damons can be expected, in the hands of a competent orthodontist, to achieve acceptible results. The caveat to that last is that their small size can sometimes present additonal challenges with partilcular types of movement.

    (*Sits back and waits to see whether we have a fanboy in the house, or whether truthful statements like this can be left unanswered*)
    I am not a dental professional.

    As it says on the main Bracesreview.com page, always consult a qualified orthodontist, dentist, or medical professional with questions you may have.

  27. #27
    smilez4me is offline Member
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    for the record... again I NEVER Stated they were special. Rather a bracket. Simple.

    You are the only one debating as I have never said anything about the bracket other than.... why is information repeated over and over again to those who already have them on? That is my one issue and that alone. That is what you fail to see or aknowledge. People who choose to have them and already have them in place do not need to be told they were victoms of ads. Give people some credit.

    So Lets see where I have stated what Damons will do that are false. Please copy and paste that for me as I dont see anywhere where Ibacked up ads. YOU are arguing with yourself and in the meantime implying that those who chose these brackets are village idiots. lol whatever makes you happy in life.

    WHOOT Finally no more replies of going around in circles with yourself. What I have stated has remained the same from day one and never did it have to to do with claims. Period.

  28. #28
    annabella is offline Member
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    With all due respect Dr. Tam and etal, I don't dispute that companies make clains that are often exaggerated..... but Folks out there never take one's person word as the gospel.
    Here is a link to a paper that clearly states through "evidence based research" that shows improved results and less time by using Damon system. As a former research assistant for MD Anderson we were taught to always look deeper.
    For the Damon skeptics...http://www.slu.edu/Documents/cade/th...son_Thesis.pdf

    So if you have Damon braces you most likely will have them on for less time than trad. brackets. And in another paper it stated that most people found the damon less bothersome (side by side study)since they are smaller and bacteria grow less than in traditional brackets.

  29. #29
    Sunny's Avatar
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    I love research and I guess that's why I get involved in it often.

    I was a participant in a study completed in three countries, to look at bacteria growth with different styles of brackets. The results were published last year ... most bacteria was found behind those brackets with doors and least bacteria was found on ligs, and brackets using clips were close to that. It wasn't what was expected ... so that made the research even more fun.

    Time frames ... research has been completed by many orthodontist's and these refute any difference in time frames. The main change in time frames is about how people's teeth move ... not anything to do with the bracket ... which of course makes sense, since brackets can't move teeth,

    Comfort ... I've seen this one first hand, from an orthodontist who joined our practise and had used the damon brackets. He had brackets for us to compare ... up the the MX ... all were higher than the brackets we use. More height means more poking ... but he did say that all his patients adjusted, which is to be expected.

    It's great you're into research to and in the end ... you're best to choose whatevere you consider is the best for your daughter.
    After 5 years, 11 months and two days of stainless steel brackets ... my teeth now have upper and lower bonded, gold wire, retainers and removable clear retainers!

  30. #30
    MCOMarkhamOrthodontist's Avatar
    MCOMarkhamOrthodontist is offline Certified Orthodontist
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    Thanks Annabella for posting the link to the thesis in support of increased treatment efficiency with the Damon brackets. There are a lot of things that go behind orthodontic treatment other than the type of bracket used.

    I went through the study briefly and noted that they measured the amount of tipping and time to alleviate crowding. There were no measures of the occlusion as per orthodontic board standards, such as tooth angulation, occlusion, etc. Patients were chosen retrospectively and there was no mention of consecutively selected patients, or when patients were treated with either system.

    The lone orthodontist in this study was taking over 2 years to complete treatment without extractions for mild crowding. Speak to most orthodontists and they will tell you that this shouldn't generally take more than 1.5 years, which is in line with the amount of time in the Damon group .

    I've had this discussion over Damon brackets with many orthodontists, both pro- and con- the system. It seems like many of the Damon proponents do complete treatment faster with them... but this is in comparison to the way they previously completed treatment with traditional brackets. It is not a measure of treatment time comparison across orthodontists. The reason is because Damon has put together a cookbook method for treatment, making treatment more direct than the way they used to practice. There's a lot more to treatment time than the rate of tooth movement. There is no evidence that Damon braces actually move teeth faster...

    One major confounding factor that most Damon treatments are attempted non-extraction (whether they should be or not). This in and of itself is going to reduce the amount of treatment time when compared to extraction treatment. Despite being a large proponent of Invisalign, this is a big problem in their marketing as well. They state that most treatments can be completed in about a year. This is because most Invisalign doctors are not treating complicated malocclusions.

    I would be extremely interested in this study that compares the comfort of Damon vs traditional brackets due size difference. There are many different sizes of Damon brackets, as there are with traditional. I know of a few companies with brackets smaller than Damon's.

    There is huge variation the way orthodontists practice, and some are extremely efficient with traditional systems, making the need for a system such as Damon unnecessary. Ultimately, your treatment time is going to depend highly on your orthodontist and staff, and your initial malocclusion, not the type of bracket used. I would like to reiterate that the peer-reviewed orthodontic literature does not show any evidence of the claims made for self-ligating brackets regarding pain, superior expansion, and decreased treatment time.
    Dr. Jason K Tam
    Certified Markham Orthodontist in Stouffville Serving Adults, Teens, and Children in Greater Toronto
    2 locations: MCO Markham Orthodontist , MCO Stouffville Orthodontist
    Invisalign Elite Provider 2011, Invisalign Teen Provider
    Incognito/iBraces Certified Orthodontist

    For the best Toronto Invisalign results, check out Invisalign Before and After, how to choose an Invisalign doctor, and Invisalign vs Braces
    Markham Braces Blog
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  31. #31
    fosterp is offline Junior Member
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    I tried to find this study in a peer reviewed journal but so far found nothing. This leads me to believe the study has not yet been scrutinized by the peer review process, and as such the conclusions drawn from the study is only the interpretation of those doing the study.

    There are so many variables that go into orthodontic treatment so it really takes a lot of large scale studies to really be able to say anything conclusive about the damon system's claims. However what we do know is that the damon brackets have been around long enough now for any kind of problems with long term stability to begin rearing its face, and from what I have read so far, it hasn't really happened yet. All I keep reading about are people who are pleased with the system, and in my consultations - reputable and experienced orthos that believe the system gives them an advantage over traditional brackets in regards to the results they can provide patients.

  32. #32
    MCOMarkhamOrthodontist's Avatar
    MCOMarkhamOrthodontist is offline Certified Orthodontist
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    Quote Originally Posted by fosterp View Post
    However what we do know is that the damon brackets have been around long enough now for any kind of problems with long term stability to begin rearing its face, and from what I have read so far, it hasn't really happened yet. All I keep reading about are people who are pleased with the system, and in my consultations - reputable and experienced orthos that believe the system gives them an advantage over traditional brackets in regards to the results they can provide patients.
    The Damon bracket is not responsible for the lack of stability. It is the treatment planning process of committing to non-extraction for virtually all patients that is the problem. Indeed, there are orthodontists pushing the border of treatment with SL and traditional brackets to cases that may require indefinite fixed retention. This may be actually provide the best results in some situations, but the risks must be revealed to those being treated. The assertion that the brackets have been around "long enough" that any damage would already be seen is far from the truth. Periodontal problems may take years to develop. Just ask the individuals with gingival recession and bone loss 30 years after treatment, from overzealous expansion and proclination.

    What makes dentistry a profession is that as a group, we are responsible for producing the research and evidence behind work that we provide for the public at large. If there was an advantage of using Damon brackets or any other bracket for that matter, the evidence would be readily available, and there would be no controversy surrounding the topic of Damon vs traditional. There is no doubt that excellent treatment can be achieved with Damon braces, but there is no miracle behind them, Invisalign, or any other treatment modality... proper treatment planning is still required.

    Patients are entitled to their assertions and opinions, as they do not need to be responsible to anyone but themselves. However, my view is that it is irresponsible for manufacturers and orthodontists to make unsubstantiated claims to a trusting public for their personal gain.
    Dr. Jason K Tam
    Certified Markham Orthodontist in Stouffville Serving Adults, Teens, and Children in Greater Toronto
    2 locations: MCO Markham Orthodontist , MCO Stouffville Orthodontist
    Invisalign Elite Provider 2011, Invisalign Teen Provider
    Incognito/iBraces Certified Orthodontist

    For the best Toronto Invisalign results, check out Invisalign Before and After, how to choose an Invisalign doctor, and Invisalign vs Braces
    Markham Braces Blog
    Stouffville Orthodontist Facebook

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