Is the final result exactly the same as the clincheck

[Jensen]

with or without refinements?
Soon I am getting my trays and starting my 1 year with plastic in the mouth.
I have seen the clincheck and it looks very OK.
I know that teeth movement is unpredictable. But thats why I would like to get some statistics about how many of you have got exactly the same result as the one on the computer screen and how many have not got the planned result.
I also would like to know: If the result is the one from the clincheck but still you don't like it how it stays on your fase, lips, profile.... Is it possible to ask for refinement only because you don't like the live result.

[MCOMarkhamOrthodontist]

The ClinCheck is only a representation of how your teeth should be moving. Depending on the movements required, the simulation may finish with "non-ideal" results because we know that certain movements will not be expressed in the video, but will happen in real life. Other times, the ClinCheck can be expected to be pretty much exactly what the doctor has ordered.

Whether you can continue on with treatment after delivering results like the simulation is likely going to be a discussion between you and your doctor.

[Jensen]

Hi again,
in a week I am getting my trays on. When I saw my clincheck the first time in the ortho's office it was very fast and I had no time to look detailed in what happens and thought that everything looks OK. But now I have got the video file with my clin check and could look more thoroughly at it. And so I noticed that the clickcheck represents something I don't want to happen. I had clearly explained to my ortho that I don't want my jaws to go further inside because of my facial proportions. I had told her that I prefer a bit space between the teeth than to have perfect teeth but in generally to look worse. She had told me that if I have little space between my teeth than the wire retainer which I probably will get after the treatment will be noticeable and we agreed then that all the space will be sent after my canines, no matter how much it is. I could see rigth away that it actually happens on the clincheck but I didn't see everything the first time. Now when I have the clincheck on my computer I can see very clear that my both jaws go inside pretty much. I can not evaluate exactly how much it is in real because the image is enlarged but as I calcilate it is up to 2mm movement inside each jew. I wrote about this to my ortho and I got answer that this teeth pushing inside in real is actually very little and we should continue with the plan. According to her this is the best result in my occasion, it will not change my face proportions vastly and I will be happy for the final result. I don't think so but I really don't know how much this computer simulation describes the real result. I guess my trays are ordered already and it is too late for order change and actually I don't know if a want a new clincheck since the ortho convinces me that this will be OK. I am really very worried because although I have got a picture of my future teeth I still don't know what the real result will be and this I see on the clincheck is deffinitely NOT what I wanted to achieve.
I really wanted to get some more input also from Invisalign patients who have got experience and real impressions from the clincheck and the real result in the end.

[magdalene]

Hi Jensen. I am at 15/18 of my first round and it looks to me as though my progress is matching my clin check pretty perfectly. My teeth were a total mess when I began and now they are fast approaching perfect. I don't know how closely this relates to your experience, but when I started out one of my concerns was about my ortho wanting to change the shape of my face slightly. She said it was too pointed at the front and she wanted to round it out a little through my treatment (I just wanted to correct my horrible overlapping front teeth). I was a bit worried about the change but now that it's happening I can see she was absolutely right. My smile and my profile look nicer already. I still have a few more weeks plus refinements to go, but wanted to let you know that despite my initial misgivings, for me it has worked out really well to trust my ortho. I wish you the very best of luck with your own treatment!

[Jensen]

Thank you Magdalene. I am happy that you like yourselv better than before. I agree that in some cases facial changes can give better results. But I doubt that exactly this change is the right one for me. However I have decided to start with this and I hope that if we (me and the ortho) don't like we can make some more changes later. Because we both know that this is not exactly what I have ordered.

[Jensen]

hi again. Now when I have got all my aligners home I can make a more precise evaluation of what is going to happen with my teeth. I can clearly see that my upper tray from start to end goes back (inside the mouth) about 1 mm. And the lower tray goes about the same or may be a bit more - 1.5 mm.
I want to clarify first that I have overjet about 2-3 mm and also a bit open bite (result of whole life sleeping with the tongue between my teeths and pushing up and out my upper teeth). In addition my jews are originally a bit too small and it makes my lips look a bip pushed inside. In general it looks OK but it is on the edge - even the smallest movement more inside will make my look apperantly worse.
When in the start me and ortho were discussing my needs we agreed that ot is OK that upper jew go maximum 1 mm inside. About the lower jew we agreed all the space between the teeth to be moved after the canines no matter how much it is. I also told her that I want my upper jew a bit wider so that the lower can come forward and cloze my overjet. Then the clincheck came, I saw it in the orthos office very fast, teeth looked very well and I said OK, we make this. But then when I got the clincheck on my computer and could look at it more detalied I saw that actually the lower jew moves pretty much inside. I had expected that it diesn't as we have arranged with the ortho in the beginning. I also notised that the upper jew doesn't get wider enough so that the lower jew can eventually move a bit forward to close the overjet. I called my ortho and she said that she has told Invisalign what to do and this is what they have made. And that this pushing inside should be so little, about 1 mm that it will be not noticeable. And also that it will be a bit space for my lower jew to come forward and close a bit the overjet. Yes, but ... now when I have my aligners on although they are pretty thin, less than 1mm I can already see (and also other people have asked me why my lips look beigger) a pretty obvious change in my lips. So I make the conclusion that after my teeth are pushed inside even with 1mm it will be pretty obvious again. But as I said the change will give a negative result because my mouth is already a bit too much inside. I explain all this because I have a question:
If after the treatment (before refinements) I don't like how my lips look is it possible this to be corrected with the coming refinements? I.e. to push my lower teeth back to their initial distance (just straight) and to allocate the extra space between my front lower teeth equally (which as I calculate will give around 0.25 mm between each adjacent teeth). In this case the refinement will not be ment to make the result from the initial plan more perfect but it will actually be another plan. Thats why I want to know if such kind of correction can be a part of the whole proces or it is something I must pay additionally?

[robin8]

If after the treatment (before refinements) I don't like how my lips look is it possible this to be corrected with the coming refinements? I.e. to push my lower teeth back to their initial distance (just straight) and to allocate the extra space between my front lower teeth equally (which as I calculate will give around 0.25 mm between each adjacent teeth). In this case the refinement will not be ment to make the result from the initial plan more perfect but it will actually be another plan. Thats why I want to know if such kind of correction can be a part of the whole proces or it is something I must pay additionally?

If I understand you correctly …

Each refinement comes with a new ClinCheck treatment plan; it's not part of the initial plan. Most treatment includes 3 refinements but that depends on the contract you have with your doctor. If that’s the case, you basically have 4 set of trays with 4 ClinCheck treatment plans in the whole process to achieve your desired results.

It’s up to your doctor’s skills and experience with Invisalign to plan the corrections you want in refinements. You seem to have very specific goals so you may want to ask your doctor to review the ClinCheck treatment plan (not the video) with you first before she clicks on the “Approve” button to finalize the plan. Align Tech (the maker of Invisalign) only manufactures the trays after the doctor approves the plan. This gives you the chance to ask your doctor questions and make sure she is on the same page as you.

[Jensen]

thank you very much, your answer makes me feel a bit better. May be it is partly my fault because it was me who approved the clincheck. But as I said it was in the haste , I had not much time to look at the details and to discuss them with my ortho. I saw nice teeth and I trusted her 100% that I have got exactly what I have ordered to her. I asked to get the clincheck to look at it at home but I don't know why I got it 2 weeks later and it was already too late, because the trays were ordered and travelling to me. And I agree I am a bit a special case but it is not because my teeth are very crooked but because I know exactly what I want and it is obviously a bit difficult to be precisely understood by my ortho who works after some standart rules. For example I don't mind a bit space between my teeth (0.25 mm) would be OK. But it seems that people can not really understand my thinking and prefferences.

[Jensen]

Hi again,
since I have found one more fault in my treatment (my mid-line which now is OK seems to be planned to be moved about 2 mm to the left) and the faults now are too many to put up with and am 99% sure that I will need refinement which actually must move some of my teeth back to almost their original position (because of misunderstanding somewhere on the way or I don't know what, I am sure I have explaind pretty clear what I want) I wonder if mid-course correction because of misunderstanding is included in the package. I think that when somebody notices a mistake better to hurry up to fix it as fast as possible than to wait until the end of the treatment and hope that refinements will fix the problem.

[robin8]

You have to ask your doctor whether mid-course correction (MCC) is included in the price you paid. Most doctors include one MCC and 3 refinements but it really depends on the doctor.

[Jensen]

OK, thank you. After I wrote my previous post I opened my last set of trays and looked very carefully at it. And I found out that clinchek is much more different than the trays. I saw for example on the clin check movement of my mid-line about 2mm to the left and this made me almost furious. But in the real tray these 2mm can not really be noticed. At least I can notice in the real tray somewhere around 0.5mm movement of the midt-line to the left. I saw also that in the clincheck my lower front teeth and roots are pressed inside about 1,5mm, meaning the whole jaw goes inside 2mm. But in the real tray is a bit different - looks like only the roots are pushed inside 1.5 mm, but the crowns of the teeth are moved towards inside only about 0.5 mm. And also other small mis-correspondence between clincheck and trays. So if this is the situation with the clincheck IMPERFECTION then I agree 100% with MCOMarkhamOrthodontis that patients must not rely too much on the clincheck and make conclusions for the final result from the clincheck before they really have have seen how the trays look like.

[MCOMarkhamOrthodontist]

OK, thank you. After I wrote my previous post I opened my last set of trays and looked very carefully at it. And I found out that clinchek is much more different than the trays. I saw for example on the clin check movement of my mid-line about 2mm to the left and this made me almost furious. But in the real tray these 2mm can not really be noticed. At least I can notice in the real tray somewhere around 0.5mm movement of the midt-line to the left. I saw also that in the clincheck my lower front teeth and roots are pressed inside about 1,5mm, meaning the whole jaw goes inside 2mm. But in the real tray is a bit different - looks like only the roots are pushed inside 1.5 mm, but the crowns of the teeth are moved towards inside only about 0.5 mm. And also other small mis-correspondence between clincheck and trays. So if this is the situation with the clincheck IMPERFECTION then I agree 100% with MCOMarkhamOrthodontis that patients must not rely too much on the clincheck and make conclusions for the final result from the clincheck before they really have have seen how the trays look like.

This is not exactly what I meant. You cannot tell exactly where the teeth will move based upon the trays because it is not possible to see exactly how the jaws will fit together with each other. However, the trays will always correspond to the ClinCheck.

What is true is that the teeth will not always move to match the trays, so that in the end, the teeth may not match the ClinCheck.

If I were you, I would express your concerns now. There is no point going through a full treatment, only to need to reverse it. Keep in mind though that your expectations may not be possible within the parameters of proper tooth movement.