Fixing an overbite.

[Jaws]

Hello! I have an overbite (deep bite?) which is 0.3 - 0.4 mm. I'm a guy, almost 17 years old. My question is, can I get my overbite corrected with braces and rubber bands? Please, I'm desperate for some answers. I have somewhat crooked teeth, and I have scheduled an appointment with a reputable orthodonist in October (A long wait.). Anyway, answers will be greatly appreciated, because I sure as hell DON'T WANT to undergo surgery.

[Jaws]

Since the lower teeth don't really need to be straight below the upper teeth, I think, I need to get my jaw forward about 0.2 - 0.3 mm.

[Stephanie]

I have seen many overbites get fixed with braces only... It really depends on how severe the overbite is...

In these cases, i highly recommend you get SEVERAL orthodontist consultations because many of them may just want to put you into surgery right away.

I try to stay away from the surgery unless it is absolutely necessary.

And SUNNY on here makes a great point about stability. In some cases overbites/underbites are fixed with braces but not as stable as would of been with the surgery.

SO there is a lot to consider.

Lets see what others say with overbites...

Welcome to the forum..

[Sunny]

Great you're going to get your overbite/deep bite fixed Jaws.

I'd recommend you have more than one consultation, to check what is considered the best treatment for you.

Many times treatment can be done with braces alone, and other times surgery is required for the best stable result. Plus sometimes braces alone can be used on a surgery case, to achieve a good result, that masks the problem, but does not totally correct it. For some people this is sufficient, but you need to talk to the orthodontist's you consult with, about advantages of one type of treatment verses another.

Good luck with your appointments!

[Jaws]

Sorry, If I ask to many and maybe inappropriate questions, but, do elastics (rubber bands) really move the lower jaw forward? I don't get it. Part of people say that I've done growing and there is NO WAY to correct my jaw alignment without surgery, but the other part of people believe that, with my age, it can be easily corrected with braces and elastics. I, first of all, know I'm still not done growing (grew a centimeter in the last month, yay! ), so that would make me assume that, with the help of elastics, my goal of correcting my overbite would be easily fixed. Not to mention the positive changes it would give to my profile.

What do you think, could my overbite be fixed with braces + elastics? I know I need to ask specialists about this, but your input would be greatly appreciated.

[Zoso]

I'm a bit confused whether you have an overbite or an overjet. It sounds like an overjet, since you are talking about moving the jaw forward, but you also used the term "deep bite" which is another way of referring to an excessive overbite. Still, I'll continue this post assuming that you are worried about the horizontal distance between your upper and lower front teeth - the overjet.

For the most part, all rubber bands do is move the teeth. There may be some small component of remodelling of the condyles (in the jaw joint) but that would be a minimal amount of change. So if you are looking to improve your profile, rubber bands and braces alone would not normally be expected to do all that much for an adult case. Now, you say that you are still growing, though I'm sure we could agree that you're not at the peak of your adolescent growth spurt at this point. But still, at 17, my guess is that you'd probably be considered old for "bite-jumping" appliances such as the Herbst or MARA - they are usually used before all the adult teeth have erupted, although some few orthos will still use them even on adults (In the latter case, I believe that they work differently than they would with kids, and frankly I worry about teh potential for long-term damage to the jaw joints). Still, head in for some consultations and see what might be possible.

[Jaws]

I still don't get it - why would I be considered ''old'' for appliances like the Herbst? If the Herbst places the jaw forward to make it grow ''the right way'', then I think that that should help. I know I won't grow like 20 centimeters or anything like that, but I can't see how making my jaw 3 mm longer is a problem. I don't mean to turn my back on the facts, but are these considered FACTS, that the Herbst won't help in anyway if I'm a little older than the average user age? Everybody is different, but are there any clinical studies that have tested the use of the Herbst in people around my age? I have seen only reports on tests with kids and adults, just about nothing about late teen patients.

I also have read about people around their 20s that say that the Herbst made their jaw grow, changing their profile. I also have chatted with two people who wrote me back that they use/used the Herbst at the ages of 18 and 19.

Also, I have read about people saying that the rubber bands (elastics) moved their jaw forward. Could you please elaborate on why exactly do you think that I'm considered too old for appliances like the Herbst?

I can't get an appointment right away, so, right now, I'm gathering up all the info and opinions I can get around the internet to be informed of treatments available and to be able to have a discussion with an orthodonist on my options. No offense intended, just want to know what's best for me (does that sound selfish? ).

[Zoso]

Does that sound selfish? Not at all. Indeed, it would be silly not to try to find the best possible treatment for your case. But it would be silly too not to listen to what the professionals have to tell you when you do head in for consultations (whether those opinions are what you want to hear or not). That said, do your research ahead of those consultations - if you think that bite-jumping appliances might work, seek out articles that back up your assertion, and yes, you absolutely should discuss with the orthodontist. Don't be afraid to ask questions.

There definitely are some studies that seem to indicate that these appliances might work well at least for borderline Class II cases in your age-group (that of the late adolescent/young adult). I don't know whether the bulk of the literature says yes or says no to this as being viable for someone like you. Do your research, and be an active participant in your consultations.

[Jaws]

Yes, I agree, the opinion of professionals is always important because they have experience treating similar cases. I just have some ''trust issues''. I have made on opinion on doctors that if the majority believes one thing then it isn't exactly the right one. I mean, the majority of dermatologists still believe that there is no cure for stretch marks, lol.

I don't know if thats me or the ''fright of jaw surgery'' writing this right now, but I DON'T WANT SURGERY. It just doesn't make sense that a 17 year old would be considered ''old'' in any way.

Could you please share your thoughts on why there are people claiming that rubber bands moved their jaw forward? I could believe a couple people making ridiculous claims, but not to such extent that people who have/had rubber bands on their braces believe that they corrected the bite problem, moving the jaw.

I need this overbite fixed! But seriously, is a 3 mm jaw movement considered large or impossible?

[Jaws]

I LOVE THE INTERNET, as a man.... can love.... a net type thingy...

Is Herbst-Multibracket Appliance Treatment More Efficient in Adolescents than in Adults?

I found this study, which clearly shows that the Herbst will help.

Herbst treatment in late adolescence: clinical, el...[Eur J Orthod. 1989] - PubMed Result

This proves just my point.

Anyway, these are not the only studies and cases proving the positive effects of the Herbst on late adolescents.

[Sunny]

Jaws you do need to talk to a few orthodontist's, until you find one you do trust. Ortho treatment requires a lot of trust, and I'd recommend delaying your treatment until you had help with your trust issues, if you find after your consultations you're not happy with what you're being told.

I work for three orthodontist's and it's their opinion that elastics do not move a person's jaw, as the jaw is made of bone and bone requires much higher forces than elastics (or springs) are capable of. What they do believe, is that with the use of archwires the upper and lower arches can be shaped, so that the teeth can be moved into a better position for a healthy bite. Often (although not always) elastics are used to assist with the moving of the teeth in this process.

Why people are claiming that elastics have moved their jaw is probably due to a few reasons and mostly because with the use of the archwires and elastics, they no longer have a class III or class II dental bite, and now have a class I. It would have been different if they began with a class III or class II skeletal bite.

If your bite problem is skeletal (as opposed to dental), you'll need to have testing done, to check if your jaw is still growing or not. At 17 years of age, there is a strong possibility, that most of the growing in that area is finished, but there are always exceptions.

Good luck with your consults and I hope you do find the right orthodontist for you and your treatment can begin soon.

PS ... I totally understand you not wanting to have jaw surgery, but there are some major positives to having surgery, if that's what's needed to correct your bite.

[Jaws]

Herbst/multibracket appliance treatment of Class II division 1 malocclusions in early and late adulthood. A prospective cephalometric study of consecutively treated subjects -- Ruf and Pancherz 28 (4): 352 -- The European Journal of Orthodontics

A little quote from this study: ''Even though it might be argued that subjects beyond a certain age are unlikely to exhibit growth, changes in facial dimensions have been shown to continue throughout life (Behrents, 1985).''

[Jaws]

Jaws you do need to talk to a few orthodontist's, until you find one you do trust. Ortho treatment requires a lot of trust, and I'd recommend delaying your treatment until you had help with your trust issues, if you find after your consultations you're not happy with what you're being told.

I work for three orthodontist's and it's their opinion that elastics do not move a person's jaw, as the jaw is made of bone and bone requires much higher forces than elastics (or springs) are capable of. What they do believe, is that with the use of archwires the upper and lower arches can be shaped, so that the teeth can be moved into a better position for a healthy bite. Often (although not always) elastics are used to assist with the moving of the teeth in this process.

Why people are claiming that elastics have moved their jaw is probably due to a few reasons and mostly because with the use of the archwires and elastics, they no longer have a class III or class II dental bite, and now have a class I. It would have been different if they began with a class III or class II skeletal bite.

If your bite problem is skeletal (as opposed to dental), you'll need to have testing done, to check if your jaw is still growing or not. At 17 years of age, there is a strong possibility, that most of the growing in that area is finished, but there are always exceptions.

Good luck with your consults and I hope you do find the right orthodontist for you and your treatment can begin soon.

PS ... I totally understand you not wanting to have jaw surgery, but there are some major positives to having surgery, if that's what's needed to correct your bite.

What are the positives to jaw surgery? Could you please tell me about the procedure? Also, what about scars, where do they make the cuts? '
I still don't think I want surgery... :S

[Jaws]

I found out that the main thing that the Herbst is concentrated on is not the growing of the mandible, but the joint remodeling. This study should explain a lot: Elsevier

What do you think? Anybody?...

[Zoso]

As far as I've understood it, in the actively growing patient, bite-jumping appliances are held to affect both the TMJ, and the growth of the mandible. In an adult patient, however, there would only be dental changes (moving teeth within the supporting bone) and TMJ remodelling.

In terms of advantages of surgery, depending on the case, it could potentially lead to more stable results. And if there is a significant issue in terms of appearance, then you're generally going to see much more impact here with a surgical than a non-surgical approach. If your chin is very small, it's possible that even if you can advance the jaw far enough to correct the bite, it may still not address the appearance issues entirely - a number of people who have their jaw advanced to correct an overjet will also have a genioplasty (moving the chin tip) to make for the best possible aesthetic.

Since you ask, all this type of work is done intra-orally - that is from the inside of the mouth. At most, patients may have a single tiny incision, no more than about a quarter of an inch long, on each side of the jaw (toward the angle of the jaw), and any scarring from this usually disappears completely within a few months at most.

[Jaws]

I have a chin. Only my upper and lower lips don't seem to be right above each other. I mean, if I push my jaw forward a little bit to when my lower teeth are just slightly touching the upper ones (about 3 mm), I can see the problem fixed.

[headgearjoe]

yes , seeing an orthodontist is best , otherwise it's a guess, i for one had a very nasty deep overbite , that was corrected with headgear an elastics an a expander at the age of 45, was in orthodontic treatment foe 2121 days for everything that had to be done because of the tmj probs i had , an things had to move slow , but yes it can be fixed without surgery an look an work very well