Changing your own ligatures...just hear me out lol

[shinshan904]

Has anyone one here ever changed their own ligatures? I have read a lot of articles discouraging people from doing this but if you feel comfortable with doing it, why not? I don't think changing them before "it's time" hinders your treatment in any way, of course what do I know. I just can't imagine any legitimate reason for not being able to do this. Reasons I have read are:

-You could break off a bracket.
Well so could the ortho or his assistant who is actually the one who usually changes the ligatures. And if I find that I'm having too much trouble changing them myself, and I'm doing more harm than helping, I'll stop doing it. I would only attempt to chage the front four.

- You could apply more unnecessary force by changing the ligatures too early.
Apparently the ligatures wear down over time and the force applied to moving your teeth lessens leading up to your next adjustment. I thought it was your teeth moving that made the force lessen...I don't think they wear down enough to actually make a difference.

These are really the only reasons I could find. I am only a week in and my ligatures have already turned yellow. I go to the local university school for treatment and they are always super busy, so it's not that easy just to go in every couple weeks to get them changed and have to take time off of work to do so. And I don't want to do colors just yet... I uploaded a pic of how my bands look before and now. They have gotten pretty bad in just one week, and no I'm not comsuming only clear foods/liquids which is about what you'd have to do in order to keer these bad boys clear for say an 8 week period lol!

[NarcoAngel]

I go to the local university school for treatment and they are always super busy, so it's not that easy just to go in every couple weeks to get them changed and have to take time off of work to do so.

MEEE tooo!

[NarcoAngel]

As far as the bands turning yellow... I havent noticed this with mine yet. Maybe I am not paying attention, I dont know. I also have clear/clear. I drink any liquids besides water with a straw. I rinse with hydrogen peroxide once a day. I brush with baking soda once a day. I don't know if it's helping, but, yea.

Oh, and I wouldn't change them myself. I'd just leave them. But that's just me.

[emanresu]

oh i just posted about this on my introduction thread. yeh mine have gone a lot worse than yours! ive had spaghetti and my ligatures are literally fluorescent yellow! it looks terrible, i called my orthodontist and she said i could change them myself but she didnt explain how to do it... so im a bit lost

[shinshan904]

Please let me know how it goes if you ry it. I guess it's good to hear your orthodontist approved of you changing them yourself. I just ordered some clear ligatures off of ebay for $10. I may wait till the day before my next appointment to attempt to change one just in case something goes wrong.

[emanresu]

oh my word. after 2 days of trying i finally succeeded in changing my ligatures. well the front 4 anyway.
i used a nail scissors to stretch the ring to fit on the top bits of the bracket and used a earring back(HA!)to hook it around the bottom. there is such a difference is colours, its amazing. the only problem is that i scrapped a bit of the white of my archwire but still looks a million times better =]

[shinshan904]

That's all I was planning on attempting to change is the front 4. Good improvising with the earring back, you might try one of those dental hooks they scrape your teeth with when they clean them to strech the band around the bracket, maybe it would be easier. I think I saw my ortho using one when he put mine on. My ligatures I ordered online should be here later this week so I have to hold out till then but eww these things look bad and I can't wait! You could do some more improvising and get some white nail polish and repaint you archwire ;-)

[shinshan904]

Soooo...I just spoke with my ortho over the phone. I aked him how he felt about me changing my own ligatures and he said "Absolutely not". He said if I wanted to come in more frequently to have hem changed he would need to switch me to a diff ortho at the school with a less busy schedule (I go the local ortho school for treatment) because he has a full list of patients right now. He said if I switched I could come in every 4 weeks instead of every 6 weeks. I'm not going to switch because coming in at 4 weeks would make no difference. The ligatures are turned by 2 weeks and I'm def not going in that often nor would they allow me to. Time to either switch colors or say bye-bye to coffee and soda I don't understand why some orthos are completely ok with this and some aren't?!?!

[lightskinnnn38]

Sorry about your busy ortho. I know mine says I can make an appointment and get them switched out if they start to get discolored, but I haven't done that yet. Mine are a horrific shade of yellow right now but luckily my appointment is tomorrow! I would agree with your ortho. Doing your own work probably isn't a good idea and I would just adjust what you eat to avoid staining than running the risk of delaying or changing your progress. It's only ligs, but you never know. *shrug*

[coconut]

I would agree with your ortho. Doing your own work probably isn't a good idea and I would just adjust what you eat to avoid staining than running the risk of delaying or changing your progress. It's only ligs, but you never know. *shrug*

Agreed.

I found that silver barely stained at all and the colour was discreet.

[catgyrl]

Soooo...I just spoke with my ortho over the phone. I aked him how he felt about me changing my own ligatures and he said "Absolutely not". He said if I wanted to come in more frequently to have hem changed he would need to switch me to a diff ortho at the school with a less busy schedule (I go the local ortho school for treatment) because he has a full list of patients right now. He said if I switched I could come in every 4 weeks instead of every 6 weeks. I'm not going to switch because coming in at 4 weeks would make no difference. The ligatures are turned by 2 weeks and I'm def not going in that often nor would they allow me to. Time to either switch colors or say bye-bye to coffee and soda I don't understand why some orthos are completely ok with this and some aren't?!?!

There should be no reason for you to give up coffee and soda. I have ceramics and clear ligs, and am a soda addict. I would DIE if I had to give it up for 2 years! I drink at least ine per day. I now drink all my soda with a straw, and the only ligs that get stained are the very far back ones, which nobody sees, anyway.

[shinshan904]

I did it! My ligatures came in the mail today and I ran with them inside to my bathroom and got started. It was totally easy. The first one took me about 3 minutes to change and the second one took me less than a minute since I had the technique down! I'm going to only change the front 6 and not worry about the back ones. I feel so much better though! I can't believe how simple it was! It bothered me so bad because my teeth used to be really yellow and it made me self conscious for years to smile with my teeth. Then I discovered crest whitestripps and I haven't stopped smiling since. So when my ligatures started turning yellow it stated making me self conscious to smile again. Well I'm going to go finish changing them. I got so excited I had to come post before I finished. I'll post pics in a bit

[shinshan904]

I did it! My ligatures came in the mail today and I ran with them inside to my bathroom and got started. It was totally easy. The first one took me about 3 minutes to change and the second one took me less than a minute since I had the technique down! I'm going to only change the front 6 and not worry about the back ones. I feel so much better though! I can't believe how simple it was! It bothered me so bad because my teeth used to be really yellow and it made me self conscious for years to smile with my teeth. Then I discovered crest whitestripps and I haven't stopped smiling since. So when my ligatures started turning yellow it stated making me self conscious to smile again. Well I'm going to go finish changing them. I got so excited I had to come post before I finished. I'll post pics in a bit

Here are the pictures. What a difference! There's the before where you can see how disgusting they were, then the after and also a pic of the old ligs next to the new ones : )

[emanresu]

ahh glad u managed to do it too it makes a lot of difference to the look of braces.
what did u use to change them with? ive been looking for tools to do it but i cant find any in a pharmacy

[coconut]

I did it! My ligatures came in the mail today and I ran with them inside to my bathroom and got started. It was totally easy. The first one took me about 3 minutes to change and the second one took me less than a minute since I had the technique down! I'm going to only change the front 6 and not worry about the back ones. I feel so much better though! I can't believe how simple it was! It bothered me so bad because my teeth used to be really yellow and it made me self conscious for years to smile with my teeth. Then I discovered crest whitestripps and I haven't stopped smiling since. So when my ligatures started turning yellow it stated making me self conscious to smile again. Well I'm going to go finish changing them. I got so excited I had to come post before I finished. I'll post pics in a bit

A shame that you didn't wait for the professional opinion on this question - Orthodontist here.

[shinshan904]

A shame that you didn't wait for the professional opinion on this question - Orthodontist here.

No, we do not recommend patients change their own ligatures. 1. it can be fairly dangerous as you may slip and cut your gums, chip or teeth, etc. 2. You may debond one or more of your brackets in the process and thus delaying your treatment even more. It is not uncommon for your ties to change colors, but you can minimize this by watching what you eat and avoiding foods that stain ( red sauces, red wine, curry, etc. )

You should definitely discuss this with your orthodontist and get some feedback.

yayyyy...None of these things happened

[shinshan904]

ahh glad u managed to do it too it makes a lot of difference to the look of braces.
what did u use to change them with? ive been looking for tools to do it but i cant find any in a pharmacy

Here is the tool I used to hook the ligs and stretch them around my brackets. I wouldn't have been able to do it without it! I got mine at walmart. It came in a pack with a dental mirror and another similar hook. It was like 5 bucks. It's made by Dentek and is one the same isle as the toothpaste.

[coconut]

I'd still clear this with your ortho before you do it again.

[lightskinnnn38]

I agree with @coconut. Don't do any more orthodontic treatment yourself without approval.

[Robot Teeth]

I know that everyone will caution against it, but I'm with you - I don't blame you for at least giving it a try - especially considering how yellow those ligs got so quickly. I'd do the same thing - which is at least give it a try.

[lightskinnnn38]

I don't understand why you would risk affecting treatment on something that you are paying thousands of dollars for? I'm not saying that the original poster affected their treatment (it looked pretty successful actually), but TO ME it is just safer to let my ortho do any changes/adjustments I need.

[Robot Teeth]

Why risk it? Because the ligs become absolutely disgusting after a short time. Its a calculated risk, pretty much based on the thought that the worst that could happen is popping a bracket. At my ortho, they will simply tell you to wait until your next appointment if you pop a bracket, even if it's 2 months away and you just had an adjustment the day before. I suppose cutting yourself or chipping your teeth could be a remote possibility, but its a matter of being careful and using safe tools. I'm pretty confident that I wouldn't chip my teeth in the process if I tried it. Even if I had to drive an hour to my orthodontist four times over the course of my treatment because I had managed to pop THAT many brackets changing my own stained brown ligatures, and having to pay $30 each time this happened, it would still be worth it.

[shinshan904]

Trust me...if I felt like changing my own ligs could be that detrimental to my treatment, I wouldn't do it. My thing is, many orthodontists allow their patients to change their own ligs. I believe it is the not so experienced ones that don't want their patients doing this, such as mine since I go to the ortho school for treatment. And as Robot Teeth stated above, what could possibly happen that is that bad??? I can't imagine anything happening that would make me say "Oh well I wish I wouldn’t have changed my own ligs cause now I can't wear braces anymore and my 3k is down the drain" or "I wish I wouldn't have done that because now I have to wear these things for 6 more months". If this was the case no ortho would allow their patients to do this. I believe the only reason mine won't is because he's in school, I am his grade, he's just dotting all his i's and crossing all his t's. If one person could tell me "Look don't do that yourself because I did and something awful came of it" I wouldn't do it. But no one has and not even the ortho who responded to my question on this message board could give me any answer as such. Again I really don't see what the big deal is if there are orthos out there who allow this. I guess it's a matter of how comfortable you are with doing it yourself and after changing mine for the first time I really don't see the big deal. I was extremely careful and it was super easy. My ortho will not change my ligs when they get yellow because he's at a school that is too busy for this, I can't go to a diff one because this is the only place I can afford and I'm not going to walk around with dingy teeth for 10 weeks at a time when I can change them myself with absolutely no problems. I didn't pay $300 extra for ceramic just to throw some hot pink ligs on them. And I'm def and not spending $3000 for braces just to screw up the treatment. This will not happen and if it does I will definitely let you all know and warn you but I highly doubt it will.

[coconut]

Trust me...if I felt like changing my own ligs could be that detrimental to my treatment, I wouldn't do it.

The problem is, you're not trained to be able to judge this.

My thing is, many orthodontists allow their patients to change their own ligs.

Really? Where did you get this information?

I believe it is the not so experienced ones that don't want their patients doing this, such as mine since I go to the ortho school for treatment.

This is both ignorant and insulting to the orthos who visit this board and give freely of their time to people such as yourself. I can assure you that my ortho had plenty of experience and he NEVER allowed me to change out my ligs (I didn't even bother asking as it seemed like such a ludicrous idea to take my treatment - and risk the hard earned cash I was paying for it - into my own hands).

And as Robot Teeth stated above, what could possibly happen that is that bad??? I can't imagine anything happening that would make me say "Oh well I wish I wouldn’t have changed my own ligs cause now I can't wear braces anymore and my 3k is down the drain" or "I wish I wouldn't have done that because now I have to wear these things for 6 more months". If this was the case no ortho would allow their patients to do this. I believe the only reason mine won't is because he's in school, I am his grade, he's just dotting all his i's and crossing all his t's.

The fact that you are still asking this question - both in this thread and in the "ortho here" thread - suggests that you have lingering doubts about whether it's a good idea.

If one person could tell me "Look don't do that yourself because I did and something awful came of it" I wouldn't do it. But no one has and not even the ortho who responded to my question on this message board could give me any answer as such.

Ah, but he did. And he also cautioned you to discuss with your ortho before changing your ligs. I'm not sure why you even bothered asking - and continue to ask - his advice if you're not going to listen to a view that contradicts your own.

And I'm def and not spending $3000 for braces just to screw up the treatment.

This is the first sensible thing you have said.

This will not happen and if it does I will definitely let you all know and warn you but I highly doubt it will.

Unfortunately, you backed it up with a claim you are in no position to guarantee.

[emanresu]

My orthodontist said it was fine to change them urself so back off the abuse on us just cause we don't want to walk around with yellow teeth for months. In order for me to keep getting them changed without an appointment i would have to pay 95 pound so being told i could do them myself is a life saver

[shinshan904]

WOW....I really wasn't trying to debate the "issue" rather get people's opinion.

1. Please tell me what so bad could come of this? The only thing the ortho could state was i could chip a tooth, cut my gums, or a bracket could come loose. This has been every other orthos response as well. But as Robot teeth stated above, when you pop a bracket under other circumstances they don't even advise you to come in right away to fix it, you just wait until your next appointment so this can't be too serious. You can pop a bracket just from eating. You can chip your teeth by having ceramics on upper and lower teeth and my ortho is willing to do this along with many other orthos as well since I see pics all over this message board with upper and lower ceramics.

2. Emanresu on this post actually stated their ortho said it was ok to change their ligs. I have also seen several other blogs and vlogs online where people state their ortho gave them the ligs to change themselves.

3. This was not an ignorant response and was meant in no way to disrespect the ortho from the other thread. I was simply trying to reason as to why some orthos do allow their patients to change their ligs and some don't and since I go to an ortho school for treatment and my ortho is actually a dentist and not an ortho...this is all I could come up with. Maybe you could answer why some allow it and some don't with a not so ignorant answer.

4. I obviously DID have lingering doubts until I went ahead and changed them and realized how easy it was. But before then I had doubts because I wasn't sure why some allowed it and some don't. I no longer have doubts just curiosity as to why SOME but not all orthos are against this.

5. I asked him another question about this because I really would like to know what the big problem is as I have not been given one yet, yet everyone is saying "Oh no you can't do that".

6 & 7. Obviously I am being sensible about my treatment and am taking it very seriously. I'm not going out eating corn on the cob or apples or doing things people have confirmed to me from their experience have caused issues. Who's to say the person at my ortho office can;t slip and cut my gums or chip a tooth or pop a bracket. There's obviously no skill required to do it or I wouldn't have been able to sit in my bathroom mirror and change my ligs for the first time in five minutes. And again, you can chip a tooth with upper and lower braces, they don;t forbid this. Shoot my waterpik cut my gums and my ortho is the one who recommended this to me. And popping a bracket well...that could happen anytime.

[coconut]

The whole point of seeking an opinion is to be able to hear different points of view and then make a balanced assessment. If you are simply looking for endorsement of your actions, then that is a different matter.

With due respect to Robotteeth, that person is not an ortho that I am aware of.

Emanresu discussed changing out her ligs with her ortho first. That seems like a reasonable course of action.

3. I was simply trying to reason as to why some orthos do allow their patients to change their ligs and some don't and since I go to an ortho school for treatment and my ortho is actually a dentist and not an ortho...this is all I could come up with. Maybe you could answer why some allow it and some don't with a not so ignorant answer.

Sorry, can't help you here. That's for the profession to respond to.

Who's to say the person at my ortho office can;t slip and cut my gums or chip a tooth or pop a bracket. There's obviously no skill required to do it or I wouldn't have been able to sit in my bathroom mirror and change my ligs for the first time in five minutes. And again, you can chip a tooth with upper and lower braces, they don;t forbid this. Shoot my waterpik cut my gums and my ortho is the one who recommended this to me. And popping a bracket well...that could happen anytime.

The person at your ortho's office is far less likely to do damage to your teeth/gums than you are.

Best of luck with your treatment, may it go smoothly.

[Robot Teeth]

Nope, I'm not an orthodontist, nor do I think that I have ever given that impression. I'm just trying to be rational. My key point was that changing your own ligatures (at least in these circumstances) is a calculated risk. And it's a position that I agree with, in that I'd probably make the same decision to try and change them myself if I were in the same situation. I acknowledged her concerns, examined the dilemma, considered the risks to the best of my ability, and ultimately came to the same conclusion as the original poster. I don't think she would have simply taken my agreement as an endorsement or permission of any kind. I think the MOST rational thing to do would be to simply bring the ligatures to your next appointment, tell them that you've successfully changed a few because you didn't expect that they'd get as bad as they did, and see how they respond. They might be skeptical of your ability to do it safely, or they might be outright angry that you even tried it at all. In that case, you'd probably want to know either way, right? Or they might actually see your rationale and ability, and give you the official go-ahead. Having changed them once yourself isn't like you made shady financial deals and destroyed the american economy or anything.

[lightskinnnn38]

I'm still wondering why orthodontists are still using non self-ligating brackets! lol. That would have shut down this whole conversation

I think the point that coconut is trying to make is that it is better to leave any changes to your ligs to the professionals to eliminate the risk of you hurting yourself or delaying your treatment. BUT if they did in fact give you permission to change your ligs then why not? Go for it.

[coconut]

I'm still wondering why orthodontists are still using non self-ligating brackets! lol. That would have shut down this whole conversation

I think the point that coconut is trying to make is that it is better to leave any changes to your ligs to the professionals to eliminate the risk of you hurting yourself or delaying your treatment. BUT if they did in fact give you permission to change your ligs then why not? Go for it.

That was my point indeed.

[MCOMarkhamOrthodontist]

I think it would be reasonable to ask your orthodontist to show you how to change your ligs if you are so inclined. I would also use the same ligs they use, because there are some of varying quality. Also, you may nullify certain parts of your orthodontic treatment agreement by doing it yourself. For instance, what happens if you break a bracket changing it yourself? Are you going to expect it to replaced free of charge?

Problems like chipping a tooth, or knocking off a bracket are extremely obvious. I would be more worried about issues you can't see or are not trained to look for, like causing inadvertent bends in the wire, not fully engaging the wire, etc.

Self-ligating brackets have a lot of negatives associated with inability to control specific movements. We do not use them because there is no scientific evidence to back up their purported claims.

All of this being said, it is possible to change them and not cause any damage. However, I can tell you that there aren't many of my patients I would trust to do so. I invite my patients to come in for a ligature change only visit when they want to, as I do not want them changing their own ligs, but this may not be the case with all doctors. It also certainly has nothing to do with my experience .

[grace]

I had an internship with an ortho while I was in college, and they let me change ligs with no real training. The only concern I can think of, is if you do choose to change them yourself, take off every other one and replace those, then take off the ones left and replace those. That should keep your archwire from rotating.

[lightskinnnn38]

I didn't even think about the wire rotating, the wire not being fully engaged, etc. I guess that is why you leave it to the professionals. And if THEY mess up you can just blame them

[coconut]

As always, Dr Tam has provided a balanced and authoritative view.

And for what it's worth, my ortho also provided the opportunity for me to come in whenever I wanted to have ligs changed (I never did, btw), I daresay for the same reason Dr Tam mentions in his post.

[shinshan904]

I had an internship with an ortho while I was in college, and they let me change ligs with no real training. The only concern I can think of, is if you do choose to change them yourself, take off every other one and replace those, then take off the ones left and replace those. That should keep your archwire from rotating.

I came to this conclusion as well. I figured if I changed them one at a time I wouldn't risk the arch wire getting out of place.

[UKbraces]

"There's obviously no skill required to do it"

How insulting!

[shinshan904]

How insulting!

I meant in no way to insult anyone. I was simply stating that I changed my own ligs in minutes and I have had no training of any kind to do this. Being and orthodontist obviously requires major skills and I understand that. Changing the ties on your braces is a different story. I am a vet uncoordinated person and changed them myself with ease the first time.

[coconut]

An ortho's opinion:

I don't know of anyone who allows their patients to change their own ligature ties. Its just outright very dangerous and counterproductive to treatment IMHO.